FWIW, this seems to be consistent across political lines.
I've been part of several gun rights groups on Facebook, both for political advocacy and plan information sharing, that have been banned without warning. Meanwhile there are groups where nothing is ever posted that isn't for sale - I haven't seen one of those taken down for several years now, and many of them are scoped to an entire state and have tens of thousands of users.
> It's like having your accounts synced into Apple Mail (or some other Google app). The difference is that it organizes your contacts and keep your data stored in the cloud
It's not the same, though - it's a non-standard service with the specific, stated purpose of data exfiltration.
The issue here isn't so much the fact that it keeps contacts available after the account is disabled; it's that it's the stated intent.
To put it another way - if I wanted this, why wouldn't I just sync my email via Thunderbird on a personal device?
> That's for sure, but, the idea here is more a CRM than a social network
I have something similar for myself, but it's just iCloud Contacts with lists and tags.
> The problem doesn't happen only to company emails...
I think this is your core issue - messaging. While I don't know if the problem you're trying to solve is one other people have, I do know that the value proposition of "you may lose your company email" is... well, it's clearly going to be a violation of contract at minimum for most employees, and potentially even a criminal act.
I’m leaving my employer soon, and one of the things I wanted to do was to keep some of my old correspondence from Slack that was more personal in nature. I wrote a script (well, I prompted AI to write a script) that exported all my DMs to a JSON file. I then built a quick local RAG, ran through them all, and had a local model categorize what was “personal”. From there I had it spit out a list of conversation topics and people that I went through by hand. The ones I wanted to keep got exported into a clean JSON file that I then copied over to a personal device.
Honestly, I think even that is at least very close to the line of what’s acceptable. I did everything I could to protect the company’s interests, and am confident that even if they were fully aware they wouldn’t have an issue with it, but I’m not at all confident it would be defensible in court if it came to that. If I thought it would, I wouldn’t have done it.
I would never even consider uploading the output to a third party, much less everything.
Interesting that it seems that you're using proton mail. I confess that I wasn't aware about that platform till few days ago.. that's what I'm also willing to achieve.
I'm not sure I understand - what are you willing to achieve exactly?
I switched to Protonmail years ago after learning that the US courts had ruled that third-party email hosts like Gmail do not receive Fourth Amendment protections. I had originally intended to fully self-host, but between the effort required to maintain my own email server and keep it off blacklists, I was looking specifically for something hosted outside direct US jurisdiction and that wasn't "responsive" to informal requests from the US.
Protonmail isn't exactly that, as I expect they would answer a subpeona, but that's OK. I'm not doing anything that I need to truly hide from the state; I only wanted my normal correspondence to not be vacuumed up with everyone else's by the NSA. At least the information that they have access to (and is therefore discoverable) is limited by design.
Their security posture also means that some of their other products - calendar, in particular - are virtually useless to me. Email not being available via IMAP is a bummer, but manageable since they have decent native apps for the platforms I care about. The only exception to that is visionOS; their iOS and iPadOS apps aren't installable on the Vision Pro, so I'm left using the web client there.
Trevally has the data encrypted and, in order to get authorized by Gmail or even Microsoft, we need to face a hard process to show them that we're following the requirements to keep the user data safe... apart from the data being stored in the cloud and other elements around it.
So, the idea behind this platform is a way to keep you email and other elements related to that (contacts, for example), synced and backed up.. and not only that, but also share informations about your data that most of these solutions doesn't offer.
Maybe, moving the servers to outside the US would avoid this 4th Amendment situation in respect to the user data.
But, I'm not sure how people are so scared about security but they're everywhere, in social platforms, using smartphones, etc. I really don't believe that there's a safety place in this WWW, but, we're trying to do that, at least, for contacts and emails, attachments.
> Contrary to the USA where it's a much more responsible market, people do pay for the medications or they get it paid by their own insurance but it cost them directly a lot of money.
That's the idea, but in practice there are so many layers of indirect government incentives, disincentives, and direct interventions that market is no longer effective for this purpose.
It's virtually impossible to find out how much a medical procedure actually costs. Most hospitals and clinics refuse to even estimate as a policy, which has led to the creation of things like pre-paid services for labor and delivery. Those are quite rare.
I'm 100% in favor of allowing the market to work - but at this point, we have the worst of both worlds and the best of neither. Either extreme would be better than what we have.
> It's virtually impossible to find out how much a medical procedure actually costs. Most hospitals and clinics refuse to even estimate as a policy, which has led to the creation of things like pre-paid services for labor and delivery. Those are quite rare.
That's absolutely incredible. Yeah if you can't even get a pricing,i don't see how you could make any decision whatsoever.
First - there's no point in worrying about something before it's clear what will happen. Personally, I find it extremely unlikely that any decision will be so broadly defined as to be applicable to more than a handful of people.
Second - I propose that it doesn't matter. I lean toward the Trump administration's positions on probably 2/3 of the issues commonly discussed today, and even from that position I would be incredibly outraged if mass denaturalization were to come to pass. The country would no longer be the America I love at that point, and I would feel very little if any affinity for it.
If what you fear comes to pass, I wouldn't see it as something happening to you - I would see it as a clear signal to emigrate as soon as possible, and at pretty much all costs.
> First - there's no point in worrying about something before it's clear what will happen
You don't think it's important to prepare for things that have a non-zero likelihood of occurring? This case has already worked its way to the Supreme Court, it's obvious something is happening with it.
> Second - I propose that it doesn't matter. I lean toward the Trump administration's positions on probably 2/3 of the issues commonly discussed today
Is the anti-immigrant rhetoric of this admin one of the things you do or not lean towards?
> You don't think it's important to prepare for things that have a non-zero likelihood of occurring?
Of course that's not what I meant. Preparation is not the same as worry. Worry solves nothing; what's needed is a cycle of observation, analysis, preparation, and action.
> Is the anti-immigrant rhetoric of this admin one of the things you do or not lean towards?
Absolutely. (ETA for clarity: meaning I absolutely disagree with their statements that incite division and feed hate)
I truly try to limit my sharing of my own views on HN, because that's not in the spirit of the community and not why I come here. If you're honestly interested in how I see it, I can copy over a post I just made on a right-wing forum on this topic.
I assure you, I have no hate in my heart for anyone. What I feel is driven by empathy, what I say is informed by empathy, and what I do is -- to the best of my ability -- a result of careful rational thought.
> Preparation is not the same as worry. Worry solves nothing
Would you prepare for something you did not have any worries about? I assume any preparation would be in response to a worry/fear/uncertainty about a situation. You study for a test because you are worried you will not know the answers. Preparation and worry seem intrinsically linked. Worry is the onus through which preparation becomes necessary.
> I truly try to limit my sharing of my own views on HN
Is that true? You freely gave your opinions on this issue and the admin in your previous comment, and you seem to talk about your opinions on these things elsewhere on HN. I was just trying to understand what parts of this admin you lean towards, and if this is one of those cases.
If you copy a post from that other forum here, I would read and likely respond to it if it was relevant to my earlier question.
> I assure you, I have no hate in my heart for anyone. What I feel is driven by empathy, what I say is informed by empathy, and what I do is -- to the best of my ability -- a result of careful rational thought.
I have a hard time squaring this with "leaning towards agreeing with 2/3rds of the admin's decisions." Trump is highly vindictive and has made that a cornerstone of this "revenge tour" presidency. But that is probably a conversation for another, more politically-inclined forum.
> Preparation and worry seem intrinsically linked. Worry is the onus through which preparation becomes necessary.
It sounds like we have a different definition of "worry". What I'm trying to say is that it's neither helpful nor healthy to become emotionally invested in something that is unlikely to happen. By "preparation" I mean I use those things as inputs to my decision-making process in general, and use the fact that I'm taking the concern into account to otherwise put it aside.
> Is that true? You freely gave your opinions on this issue and the admin in your previous comment, and you seem to talk about your opinions on these things elsewhere on HN.
I try to be transparent, and bring up political stuff only when it's directly relevant to understand why I'm making a statement. If I don't have facts to bring to the conversation, I stay out of it. I'll challenge someone if they support an argument with something that is either untrue or incomplete, whether or not I agree with their conclusion.
At no point do I expect or intend to change anyone's mind; that's not the point. When it comes down to it, I don't believe that a belief that won't survive being challenged is worth holding, and I want to know if I've missed something. To put it another way, any time I mention something political here, it's because I see someone who holds a contrary belief and want to challenge my own beliefs on the subject.
> I was just trying to understand what parts of this admin you lean towards, and if this is one of those cases.
Why?
I'm an anarcho-capitalist; the vast majority of my beliefs are going to be at odds with most people regardless of political affiliation. I don't have a political litmus test for who I interact with and (at the risk of being blunt) if you do, I'd prefer you just go ahead and assume that I fail it.
I pride myself on being transparent, and if you're honestly interested in understanding each other's perspective I'm more than happy to oblige. If not, then nothing I can say will matter and it's not worth upsetting anyone over.
> I have a hard time squaring this with "leaning towards agreeing with 2/3rds of the admin's decisions."
Oh, me too. Me too. It's not a comfortable position to be in when I dislike the man personally while simultaneously believe some of the results of his actions are positive for the country.
> Trump is highly vindictive and has made that a cornerstone of this "revenge tour" presidency.
I 100% agree. I wish that weren't the case, but do see some bright side to it - I really, really hope the Democrats sees Trump's popular support as a reaction to their alienating a very large portion of the electorate. I'd love nothing more than to see both parties temper their divisiveness and be more empathetic to those on "the other side".
Oh, and I'll also say that if it doesn't work out that way, I don't see much positive in the future for the Republicans, either. It's at least equally likely that this is the beginning of a descent into tyranny.
> But that is probably a conversation for another, more politically-inclined forum.
Yep, that's my point. I love talking politics and philosophy, but my respect for the norms of this community outweigh that. It's been my experience that most of these conversations quickly turn adversarial - if you go through my comment history you'll likely see that I often disengage when that happens, or wait a day or two to reply to avoid starting a flame war.
>> I was just trying to understand what parts of this admin you lean towards, and if this is one of those cases.
>Why?
Because I can't square your previous statements without understanding what parts are acceptable to you and which are not. You have not provided anything for me to understand your position politically except that you don't think it's worth worrying about the Supreme Court potentially destroying birthright citizenship.
> At no point do I expect or intend to change anyone's mind; that's not the point. When it comes down to it, I don't believe that a belief that won't survive being challenged is worth holding, and I want to know if I've missed something. To put it another way, any time I mention something political here, it's because I see someone who holds a contrary belief and want to challenge my own beliefs on the subject.
Well put, and I agree. Arguing a belief is the fastest way to improve and correct it. That is why I was trying to get a more well-rounded picture of your opinions on this admin, because I want to understand your context surrounding your political ideas.
> Yep, that's my point. I love talking politics and philosophy, but my respect for the norms of this community outweigh that. It's been my experience that most of these conversations quickly turn adversarial - if you go through my comment history you'll likely see that I often disengage when that happens, or wait a day or two to reply to avoid starting a flame war.
We can end it here to keep with those norms. I appreciate you responding with some of your opinions and your honesty.
It sounds like we have good intentions and are on the same page as a whole :)
> We can end it here to keep with those norms.
I'll do you one better - I have a pseudo-anonymous email address in my profile. Shoot me a message and I'll share real contact information if you'd like to continue.
How will this be enforced? Where are your parents papers right now? What about their parents? Seems like an easy way to criminalize and deport literally anyone with zero pretext.
It's extremely uncommon for the court to issue an opinion with such large repercussions.
Even if birthright citizenship is overturned (which I find very unlikely), I would expect it to be narrowly defined so as to apply only to children born of parents not present legally in the country - and likely with a specific carveout for those who overstay visas and such, as those people are clearly subject to US jurisdiction by virtue of the application process.
The absolute largest change I would expect would be to end birthright citizenship for children whose parents illegally entered into the US and have never had a visa of entry permit of any type whatsoever.
> those people are clearly subject to US jurisdiction by virtue of the application process.
But the wording doesn't apply to the parents, it applies to the baby: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof", not "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and whose parents are subject to the jurisdiction thereof".
> It's extremely uncommon for the court to issue an opinion with such large repercussions.
Like Dobbs (Abortion), Bruen (Guns), Students for Fair Admissions (Affirmative Action), Loper Bright, Destruction of the voting rights act, Trump is king, etc
This supreme court issues at least one opinion with massive repercussions each term, every term. I simply don't know how you are under the impression that they care about repercussions in the slightest. They don't much care for rationale explanation or precedent either.
> The absolute largest change I would expect would be to end birthright citizenship for children whose parents illegally entered into the US and have never had a visa of entry permit of any type whatsoever.
That's the vibe I get.
However, I don't see a definition of jurisdiction in the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" that would make this workable. How do you see this being resolved?
At a much higher level, this court seems to be attempting to slowly and carefully reign in the power of the federal government.
I expect that there will be enough of a headline here for the Trump administration to hold it up as a victory, while being so narrowly defined that it will only apply to a relative handful of individuals.
The court's interest here is most likely a precedent that will be applicable in subsequent cases. It could conceivably end up establishing a new, weaker form of Chevron deference where ambiguity is interpreted in the light most beneficial to the People.
I think the court is trying desperately to avoid having to rule on anything and will slow walk this until it hopefully goes away, while giving the admin virtual carte blanche to do what they want.
I can see why you'd say that, but I'm actually thinking on a longer timeline. They've been trending that way for almost a decade now, and seem to be accelerating a bit. Most recently, the overturning of the Chevron deference doctrine comes to mind, and that was in July 2024.
First, _jus soli_ is relatively rare in the world at large.
Second, the Supreme Court has never ruled on birthright citizenship; the meaning of the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" has not been tested.
Regardless of your political views, this is an extremely important area of US law, and for it to be undefined isn't fair to anyone.
Even if "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" has never made it to the Supreme Court, it's not an ambiguous phrase subject to multiple interpretations. The idea that some class of immigrants are outside the jurisdiction of the US even when they are physically in the country is not supportable.
Precisely. The phrase is exclusively intended to handle both foreign and US diplomats.
Diplomatically, embassies count as the soil of the country they represent and thus subject to the jurisdiction of said country. As a result, a child born to a foreign diplomat present in the US would not be granted citizenship. Similarly, a US ambassador (to Germany, for example) is treated as still subject to US jurisdiction, and by extension, any children of theirs would automatically become US citizens.
A person who entered the US illegally is still subject to US jurisdiction (or else they couldn't be violating US immigration law), so any children they have are citizens. The proper ways to address that are to a) prevent them from entering illegally in the first place, b) fix immigration law so they don't have to enter illegally, and/or c) add a constitutional amendment modifying the 14th amendment to explicitly deny citizenship to children born to parents who are here illegally.
> The phrase is exclusively intended to handle both foreign and US diplomats.
I'd argue that the phrase was originally intended to make it absolutely clear that formerly enslaved people were citizens, and so were their children.
Obviously it's been used for other purposes since then, and the authors and those who ratified it considered the repercussions through their own biases, but I believe that was almost exclusively the primary intent.
It's striking me at the moment how much the political climate today mirrors that of the time the 14th was ratified. From a historical perspective, the concern is over the expansion of the electorate - from the abolition of slavery then, and from uncontrolled immigration today.
The difference I see is that the abolition of slavery was a positive decision made by the US government; today's concerns around illegal immigration were caused by our failure to enforce our own laws. Based on my understanding of the motivations of our Justices today, that could be a key difference.
I've been part of several gun rights groups on Facebook, both for political advocacy and plan information sharing, that have been banned without warning. Meanwhile there are groups where nothing is ever posted that isn't for sale - I haven't seen one of those taken down for several years now, and many of them are scoped to an entire state and have tens of thousands of users.
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