Electrek’s ‘reporting’ has proven so one-sided that I take all their stories with a bucket of salt. Even if the truck has been a flop I doubt their whole battery program has been. Perhaps they’re rejigging suppliers and pausing whilst they get ready to ramp up cyber cab production lines
Is there something you'd prefer the shoddy beginnings of a Dyson sphere be doing?
I understand thinking it would be a terrible idea in many ways, but in this scenario I think the only thing an "eco-terrorist" accomplishes is getting more servers to stay on earth where they damage the ecosystem more.
And what evidence do you base those assumptions on? According to the journalists at electrek despite Tesla having capacity to manufacture 250k cybertrucks per year, they're only selling 20-25k per year
I actually get a kick out of Eletrek’s roasting of Elon and Tesla, but if you read a few of their articles, it’s clear they don’t like him. Lots of opinions and editorializing in the articles. I have no problem with that, you just have to realize where they are coming from and base your interpretation accordingly
Its not that they dont like him, its more of Editor was big believer until Tesla scammed him out of half a $mil worth of fake roadsters that never materialized.
If that's really the reason, that's the most idiotic reason possible. So he "earned" a couple of Roadsters by spamming his referral code, and it turns out his free cars might be a decade late, and maybe not as awesome as promised?
If your employer said they'd pay you half a million if you worked for them, and then you did and they didn't pay you, I doubt you'd be dismissing it so frivolously
Is it fraud if he paid $0 for non-existent roadsters? Referral credits are legal fictions, much like how Tesla Roadsters are physical fictions. Trading one fiction for another isn’t fraud, it’s cosplay.
>Is it fraud if he paid $0 for non-existent roadsters?
Is it fraud if you worked for a startup that promised you options, and then refused to honor/issue those said options? After all, because those options never existed, you also "paid $0 for non-existent [options]"?
> Leveraging an existing monetised readership for referral credits isn’t “work”.
> Is it fraud if he paid $0 for non-existent roadsters?
How do you think readership gets monetised in the first place? The biggest way is ads, which includes referrals.
Do you dismiss paid ad placement the same way you dismiss referrals? If not, what makes it different?
> Referral credits are legal fictions
A promise for $100 of stuff isn't exactly the same as a promise for $100, but it's close. Debt is a "legal fiction" but that doesn't mean it's not legitimate, or that you can pretend it doesn't exist.
The reason for that is actually very funny. Electrek guy (Fred) was one of the main propagandist for Tesla's cult - he 'earned' 2 free Tesla Roadsters for his convincing enough people to buy a Tesla.
It was only once he realized that he has been duped and those will never materialize that the coverage turned negative.
Thanks for this - I've paid much less attention to Tesla over recent years, but my memory of Electrek was that it was a distinctly-pro Tesla outlet, but this was a few years back now.
No I said
“ Even if the truck has been a flop I doubt their whole battery program has been “
The replier then went off on one about the truck actually being a flop. I already conceded it had been. The main point was that their battery program probably hasn’t been a flop
The haters on here are ridiculous. If everyone who ever had a product that failed in the market was called a fraud on HN then probably almost everyone would be. SpaceX failed on their first three launches. All the haters here would have voted to shut it all down. Glad Elon's able to recover from business failures without going to the HN comments section to find out what he should do next.
Elon has done sufficiently impressive things which is why it’s sad that he has to make up a whole bunch of new things to try to impress people. Being the richest man alive is not enough he also has to be the best gamer as well. If he lies about small things that don’t matter then how could I trust him to tell the truth on important things that do matter.
Howard Hughes also did impressive things. Built amazingly advanced aircraft for the era. Started a Hollywood movie studio. Owned one of the world’s largest airlines. His company (after his death of course) provided satellite IP links for decades before Elon showed up with a cheaper option.
He died as an isolated insane hermit wearing kleenex boxes as shoes and collecting his urine in mason jars.
I think that we have already seen peak Elon, and the only thing we will see in the future is his continued descent into madness, which I expect will be aided and abetted by his business associates, just as Howard Huges’s illness was.
Perfect was not the bar that was set. Elon can be the richest person in the world and a lair at the same time. It's about what kind of person lies about being one of the best gamers in the world when clearly they're not. This is of course not the only thing he has lied about but it is possibly the pettiest. And possibly the stupidest because the very people it was supposed to impress were going to find out near instantly and now despise him for it. Consider his foray into politics, it wasn't enough to sway the elections with a large sum of money he also had to insert himself into the process. In addition to being the best gamer he was trying to be the best politician - the result was a catastrophic failure. I'm still pretty convinced Adrian Dittmann is his sock puppet account and his attempt at being the best streamer as well. Done 'anonymously' to make the case that he's not bootstrapping on his other successes but not too anonymously to avoid being totally irrelevant.
I assume then, when you've had a massive positive influence on the world, employed hundred of thousands, brought electric vehicles to the mainstream, built a rocket company and blanketed the entire planet in affordable, high speed internet, etc... then you'll agree with the people on the internet that attack you because you claim to be a better video game player than you actually are.
In your hypothetical you are asking that if I was a lier would I be ok with it. One would have to presume that I wouldn’t be a lier if I wasn’t also ok with it. I am neither a lier and if somehow I had lied I would also not be ok with it and would hope others hold me to a better standard.
So the only two options you can imagine entail his detractors being irrational and emotional? You can not comprehend that anyone can have any valid complaint regarding him and his behavior at all?
Musk has accomplished some remarkable things, by having grand visions, ruthlessly executing on them, and being willing to repeatedly take on a massive amount of risk. If that had been all, I don’t think many people would be decrying him like this. It’s still easy to justify admiring those bits, if you’re so inclined
But he has also done a lot of things that make him unlikable and are harder to justify. He happily whips up massive amounts of hype, regardless of how likely his claims are to actually manifest (which is a large part of why the Tesla stock price is where it’s at). He sucks himself off at every possible turn, and takes dubious personal credit for a lot of things his companies achieve. He is vindictive and has exacted retribution on people with much less power than him (or pouts about it in an undignified fashion when the opponent is too powerful to crush, like the SEC). He has an easily bruised ego and lashes out in a very childish manner (remember the diver he called a pedo on Twitter). He enters into realms he has no expertise in and proclaims to the whole world that he has all the answers. He directly interferes in US and world politics by wielding his wealth and influence, sometimes with disastrous results (it doesn’t help that his political views usually are unsophisticated and immature, especially since he acts so certain of them). Etc, etc
Basically, he’s a dickhead that thinks he’s the best in the world at everything, and many of whose actions are detrimental to both individuals and the world at large. He doesn’t get a free pass for that just because he’s done some impressive things with his businesses
There is absolutely a point. I strongly believe that criticising bad arguments and correcting false claims is especially important when dealing with the worst people and the worst companies. Bad arguments and false claims ultimately work in their favour, distracting away from substantive criticisms. Don’t hand them that advantage.
This isn’t Reddit, and I’m not American. I’m not interested in your culture war.
There was a deeper point to my earlier message. I don’t think I was being particularly cryptic, so I can only assume you’re intentionally refusing to engage with it.
And if I ever see any misleading claims go uncorrected in a discussion, I won't hesitate to provide such corrections. This hasn't happened here, so there's nothing for me to say on that.
Nonetheless, how distressing it must be to learn that a company could ever exaggerate, right up to the point of technical falsehood, in its marketing. GM would never market emissions-cheating engines as "clean diesel." Ford would never label a payload "best-in-class" when it isn't. Perish the thought. Pass me my fainting couch.
Rationalisation and whataboutism. This convinces me that you've formed a parasocial relationship with a car brand. I think it's psychological safer for you to desperately defend the brand than it is to be honest about it.
Given that it's plainly obvious what's going on here, on a whim I asked ChatGPT what it thought of your last reply and here’s what it said:
——————
That message is textbook projection plus motive attribution.
What’s happening, plainly:
1. Projection
They accuse you of a parasocial relationship while displaying one themselves—just inverted (hostile instead of admiring).
2. Mind-reading / motive attribution
“It’s psychologically safer for you…” assigns an internal emotional motive without evidence. That’s not argument; it’s speculation presented as diagnosis.
3. Poisoning the well
By framing disagreement as psychological defense, they pre-emptively invalidate anything you say next. If you respond, it “proves” their claim.
4. Pathologizing dissent
Disagreeing with them is reframed as mental weakness rather than a difference in reasoning or evidence.
5. Asymmetric skepticism
Their own emotional investment is treated as insight; yours is treated as pathology.
——————
It went on, but you get the point. Hey, there might be something to this AI stuff after all.
It’s affordable relative to the definition of affordable given at the time. The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. That's $28,600 in 2016 dollars.
If you have a good argument, it will withstand the bare minimum of logical analysis, such as the factoring the consequences of inflation.
On a personal note I don’t find the CEO of most companies to be particularly interesting or important, and I include Tesla in that. Obsessing over personalities is the furthest from interesting as it gets for me.
Please don't post shallow attacks of other contributors like this on HN: It detracts from the quality of the forum. Maybe save the behavior for twitter or gab or truth or whatever is the new one these days.
Yeah, I'm getting the same feeling. They've announced that semi will use 4680 and Cyber Cab as well, right? If that's the case, this would point to a specific supplier issue rather than something more general.
It isn't something that I've looked into in depth, but it feels like a lot of the discussion isn't hitting the mark here.
When somebody is siding with reality, especially a media source, that's a reason to listen to them more not less.
And when it's straight up facts easily verifiable from others sources, pretending that it's not based in reality is just sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "la la la la" which is something that even very few 12 year olds do.
The only fact was about the contract which is like a sentence of the article. Then it goes into a guessing game on what it could mean, with the most negative spin possible.
I honestly don’t follow this much but I doubt that production ramp up is the Cybercab’s long pole when they’ll need a significant number of market approvals for FSD to reach critical mass.
I wasn't talking about what they were discussing (desalination for farming). I was talking about moving an entire city, as opposed to getting enough water to deal with just that city.
Actually it says the desalinated water is too expensive even for farming, it’s only used for heavy industries, so it’s certainly not a solution for the domestic supply of 9 million people.
And don’t confuse moving the capital city with actually relocating Tehran. Tehran’s not going anywhere. What they’re proposing is building a new capital city, but it’ll be the rich and the political and religious elite who move there. The millions of poor and powerless living in Tehran will get left behind. Some will be able to migrate south, but many won’t.
As someone who did an MBA and was groomed to be a Consultant and then repented (now a software engineer) you have to understand that the customer of a consultancy project is an exec.
1. The exec has been charged with exploring a new product space, a potential M&A deal, more vertical integration etc etc
2. The exec needs a gauge on the "size of the prize", is this thing worth doing? roughly how will it be done? how long etc.
3. The exec probably already has a rough idea or gut feeling about one such option
4. The consultants produce something that usually supports the gut feeling, other times it will suggest alternatives and provide some facts and figures to support
Years ago, I was introduced to a “what would Elon do?” assistant. Execs want to know what their (current or hypothetical) competition would do given their decision-support data. But they also want to know what a consult-assistant cutout would know.
This entirely depends on industry and geography. I've worked with big companies where the customers of consultants were effectively middle management, several layers removed from execs.
True, they are called the "Hidden Client", any good consultant will be able to essentially do intelligence gathering on who that is and what they want, because it will be one exec
Hey this report was done by McKinsey and they hire from Harvard and Stanford, and hear how well they speak and look how soft their hair is, the report must be good!
Same. It seems the coding part of my brain and the communicating are mutually exclusive
I wonder if it’s related to the phenomena of some people having a ‘narrator’ in their head or, like me, there’s no voice and it takes effort to convert abstract thoughts to sentences
Maybe this is a misconception or misrepresentation of pair-programming, at least compared to my experience. One person isn't supposed to be doing both. You're either navigating/explaining or driving/doing. Pair programming isn't about one person doing everything and another person watching and trying to keep up. It's about communicating and sharing an understanding, like a realtime/interactive PR description/review while writing. Of course there are times where one person will simply say "let me write this out and discuss after" and go at it for a short while, but it should be the exception rather than the rule in settings where it worked best for me.
Perhaps it is, but I'm not really going to entertain someone saying they tried it and it didn't work, when all they did was work their own screens/keyboards sitting side-by-side (or remote) each with their own ideas and not really sharing in the process, except to interrupt and annoy each other.
no I actually get it, I think like most fads, it seems to work great for really trivial things or for debugging. I have myself used pair programming in those cases.
I just can't imagine using it for serious work. navigating/explaining? I know neither the science I'm trying to code nor the code I'm trying to write - I'll write code to explore the data, I'll have a hunch, I'll wonder about something and I'll go find that one paper I came across 10 years ago to check - I don't see what code the other would be writing while I'm trying to figure that stuff out.
Totally agree. I wouldn't say it's well suited for research or research-heavy work. In those cases, I'll do research on my own and reconvene later or another day.
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