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Pump and dump scheme?


What evidence is there for the 'dump' part?

Mr Musk is a strange fellow indeed, but he's not guilty of all the vices and sins. Just plenty enough of them.


That’s a fair point, but a combination of “fake it ‘til you make it” together with extracting massive “compensation” before you actually make it amounts to pretty much the same thing.


How is it the 'same thing'? Especially if he gets his comp largely in the same supposedly overvalued stock?


How is that different from any other CEO, especially of publicly traded companies?

CEOs are constantly making claims and promises that are aspirational at best, their compensation isn't held until all promises are reached.


IIRC, back in 2022 or so he'd made about as much selling TSLA shares as Tesla Inc. has made lifetime profits selling cars.

Tesla's profits have been positive since then, so this may no longer be the case, but still, that's a very iffy state of affairs.


That's more a sign of how poorly investors in the stock market today understand fundamentals, or how little they regard fundamentals.


He has been selling a lot of Tesla stocks through the life of the company (not that it matters to him as other shareholders are giving him load of free shares all the time).


It's not the usual type of 'dump', but he will probably again request massive bonus or threaten to leave. And his statements are the key for pumping part.


He might be pumping until his potential trillion USD bonus :P


his family is going to need it, the guy is the modern genghis khan in a generation or two a good portion of humanity will be a descendant of his


At the current growth rate, they'll be 2.5Billion in just 8 generations...


I'd say more in Doge and Bitcoin but you could argue with his stocks even though they're announced/scheduled.


As Matt Levine points out, Musk does plenty of crypto price moving with his tweets, but he doesn't seem to trade on them.


Do you have evidence on this? Seems like it would be fairly difficult to track. Have people been able to associate his wallets with him?

Maybe I'm misremembering but I seem to recall him (Tesla?) selling a bunch of doge and bitcoin after months of pumping despite some big drops between.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/05/31/tes...

> Musk sold 19.5 million Tesla shares worth about $3.95 billion in November 2022

I mean sure it is his to sell, but how is that different?


So is your issue here that a CEO makes public claims if his company that may be predictions or aspirations for the future, then sells shares he owns in the company to buy another company?


Exactly my issue. The same way scams are "predictions and future aspirations".


Fair enough. I may just be cynical enough to assume CEOs are always talking out of their ass with regards to the future, but I do understand if people would rather things not work this way.


That was to buy Twitter.


Does using the money from the dump to do something else make it no longer a dump?


I'm fairly sure this was not a pump-and-dump.

My evidence is that in America people sue for these things left and right all the time. It's a popular pastime for lawyers to get a class action lawsuit for securities fraud together. But as far as I can tell, Musk / Tesla weren't convicted of these things in conjunction with the sale of Tesla stock to buy Twitter.


There is a meme for this kind of move. It's pump and dump because it isn't worth what the underlying assets are worth and because there is a sale. Whether people sue for it and whether or not they were convicted is immaterial.


You know that's the timeframe of the Twitter acquisition right?


Agreed. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knew this was the plan all along. It's not like it was hard to find people saying this before the election.


It's not that great even if you have money. Unless you're talking about the type of money needed to pay for all of your treatments out of pocket, and give you access to special private care most people don't even know exists.

My experience has been: if you have an immediate health issue with an obvious solution, you can get pretty good care. Say if you have a broken arm, gun shot wound, heart attack, stroke, etc. Anything uncommon, or that requires ongoing care, is a life sucking nightmare.

I'll give some examples from my own life. I live outside a major metropolitan area. A relative was visiting me and had a stroke in my living room. I called 911, and an ambulance appeared 5 minutes later, in 25 minutes they were in a hospital with a telemedicine link to a stroke expert. The expert said they needed to be brought to a downtown hospital so they were sent there by helicopter. One of the two best neurosurgeons in the city performed an endoscopic removal of the clot and saved their life.

Contrast this with a different relation who struggles with chronic pain and spine problems and has spent the last 20 years bouncing around various doctors, battling insurance companies, pharmacies, waiting to be seen, waiting endlessly for specialists, tests, and having to keep track of all of their information themselves because the system is fragmented and every office wants a complete restatement to their medical history.


LLMs seem better suited to help with the Tower of Babel we've created for ourselves: aws commands, Terraform modules, Java libraries, Javascript/React, obscure shell commands, etc.


`trash` is good to know, thanks! I'd been doing: "tell app \"Finder\" to move {%s} to trash" where %s is a comma separated list of "the POSIX file <path-to-file>".


Oooh, I just suggested in another comment that using applescript would be possible. I didn't think it would be this easy though.


True, though money can buy influence and the opportunity to obtain power.


the people with all the firepower won't let you buy your own private military (or develop your own weapons systems without being under their control). The end-of-line power (violence) is a closely guarded monopoly.


But, on the flip side, coercive power cannot stand on its own without money too. The CCP's Politburo know beyond a doubt that they have coercive power over billionaires like Jack Ma, but they try to accommodate these entrepreneurs who help catalyze economic growth & bring the state more foreign revenue/wealth to fund its coercive machine.

America's elected leaders also have power to punish & bring oligarchs to book legally, but they mostly interact symbiotically, exchanging campaign contributions and board seats for preferential treatment, favorable policy, etc.

Putin can order any out-of-line oligarch to be disposed of, but the economic & coercive arms of the Russian State still see themselves as two sides of the same coin.

So, yes: coercive power can still make billionaires face the wall (Russian revolution, etc.) but they mostly prefer to work together. Money and power are a continuum like spacetime.


The Intelligent Investor by Graham talks about investors putting so much money into airlines and air freight that it became impossible to make a return. I don't know if you would call that a bubble, maybe just over exuberance.


Yeah, it's certainly difficult to balance the game if players have complete flexibility.

From my limited DMing experience, much of the challenges is handling when players do something you haven't anticipated. For most encounters (video games do this too) I think about

1. The stealth approach (why yes there is a secret entrance underneath the castle). 2. The direct approach. Like just kicking down the door and heading in. 3. Negotiation: Is there a way to strike a deal with the bad guy?

Beyond that I fall back on trying to provide a realistic response from the game world, but sometimes the players are creative enough that you have to redo the whole thing on the fly.


Do you ever tell players that they flat-out can’t do something? Do players realize when they’re going off-script? (Do you let them know with a sigh or a long stare, or do you just roll with it and encourage the playful creativity?)

I like your three-part planning a lot! That’s a great framework.


Yeah, it's just a scam so companies don't have to keep vacation on their books. It just means if you give your boss enough notice, maybe you'll get some time off, as long as your project is progressing well.


Emacs has a button for that :-).


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