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There's Borgo: https://github.com/borgo-lang/borgo

I've never used it so can't speak from any experience, and unfortunately it doesn't seem particularly active (and doesn't mention a current status anywhere), and doesn't have a license, so shrug. When it's been posted here (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40211891), people seemed pretty excited about it.


Borgo looks like some guys phd thesis. It looks like it was a fun experiment.

I feel a new simple ocaml like language that just compiled to Go would be really popular, really fast. And it would not even need to build a ecosystem, as Go already have all the things you need.

Something like what Gleam is for Erlang.


Looks like it's explained here: https://github.com/charlotte-os/Catten/blob/main/License/cla...

Specifically, "Users may link this kernel with closed-source binary drivers, including static libraries, for personal, internal, or evaluation use without being required to disclose the source code of the proprietary driver.".


Ok, even Doug Crockford has mucked around with licensing before, so this is definitely a digression and not aimed at CharlotteOS which looks fascinating:

I wish there was a social stigma in Open Source/Free Software to doing anything other than just picking a bog standard license.

I mean, we have a social stigma even for OS developers about rolling your own crypto primitives. Even though it's the same very general domain, we know from experience that someone who isn't an active, experienced cryptographer would have close to a zero percent chance of getting it right.

If that's true, then it's even less likely that a programmer is going to make legally competent (or even legally relevant) decisions when writing their own open source compatible license, or modifying an existing license.

I guess technically the "clarification" of a bog standard license is outside of my critique. Even so, their clarification is shoe-horned right there in a parenthetical next to the "License" heading, making me itchy... :)


OP here, it's not mucking around with the license just making sure people know how the GPLv3 works. You are not required to provide source code for the combined work unless it is conveyed. If you combine the covered work with closed source but don't convey the resulting product you are not required to provide any source to anyone.

Many people don't know that, hence the clarification note.


Thanks for that. It's really incredible how much stigma GPLv3 has, makes you wonder sometimes.


Its almost impossible to have a non-begging based business model and a standard OpenSource license. So unless you want to donate a lot of work to some huge company's bottom line for free, a standard OpenSource license is a non starter. I'm sorry that you don't seem to understand the events that led to this state. But if you ever wrote an OpenSource platform that people wanted to use, you would know why the standard licenses don't work. That's why the social stigma is the other way around. Your position from the POV of OpenSource devs is naive at best and likely destructive to the developers themselves.


> I think, similar to Preact, Mithril skips the VDOM, which makes it "more immediate" than React.

Both Mithril and Preact use virtual DOMs:

https://mithril.js.org/vnodes.html

https://preactjs.com/tutorial/01-vdom


Some of the comments here remind me of online commentary about some place called "the orange site". Always wondered who they were talking about...


Honestly, as a daily reader and oftentimes commenter on the dreaded orange site, I've seen a lot of criticism of its denizens, very often along the lines of -

"Computer people who think that because they're smart in one area they have useful opinions on anything else, holding forth with great certainty about stuff they have zero undertanding or insight into"

And you know what, I think they're right. The rest of you are always doing that sort of thing!

(/s, if it's necessary...)


Can't stand that place. Those people are all so sure that they're right about everything.


"What a heavy load Einstein must've had. Fuckin' morons, everywhere."

David Lynch


I have never seen a single one of his movies but I love watching interviews with him, he had an amazing presence and so much energy.


I'm also ashamed to say I've also never seen any of his movies and TV series but this still hits hard because of his influence on some my most cherished fictional properties. These are Alan Wake/Control, Silent Hill 1&2, Returnal and Disco Elysium.

Actually, his influence on how surrealist fiction is presented throughout all media cannot be understated. I was surprised to read even the original Zelda has him as an influence. Majora's Mask does feel particularly Lynchian.

It would not surprise me if the Souls games and at least the later Berserks (late 90s/early 2000s forward) were either directly or 1-step indirectly influenced by Lynch.


I think it was less the original Zelda than it was Link's Awakening that had the Lynch influence, specifically influence by Twin Peaks

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/12/feature_how_david_...


There's no possibility Lynch inspired the original Zelda.

The original Zelda was released way before Lynch's Twin Peaks, which was a hit in Japan, was even in production. The look of the protagonist of Zelda was inspired by Disney's Peter Pan. The pig villain was inspired by a pig man in Journey to the West.


It was the fourth Zelda, Link’s Awakening (1993), that was inspired by Lynch and Twin Peaks. If you’ve played it, the influence in that one is apparent — it’s about Link discovering an isolated community of eccentrics hiding a secret, and dreams play a major role. The game’s director, Takashi Tezuka, specifically wanted to emulate the mood of Dale Cooper discovering the town of Twin Peaks, meeting its oddball inhabitants, and trying to figure out what they’re hiding.


An (un)obvious connection between Eraserhead and Bloodborne (spoiler!):

https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/xgu21c/eraserhe...


I'm gonna say start with Blue Velvet. It still has the backbone of a classical noir, but it is completely run through with the character of his work. Mulholland Drive reflects the apex of his vision and talents, but there's a learning curve to appreciating it.


Elephant Man is perhaps the most approachable. Anthony Hopkins and John Hurt are at the apex of their acting careers in this film.

After that Mullholland Drive is absolutely brilliant and has that unforgettable masterpiece diner scene: https://youtu.be/UozhOo0Dt4o?si=GedzAdMh0KIXoHz4


Okay. not knowing anything about this film, not ever hearing or seeing it, I just clicked on that diner scene and holy f*ck, that was terrifying. and thank you :)


It's a jump scare that works incredibly well, yet it's shot in slow-motion and lit to full daylight, two things anathema to jump scares.


I would say that A Straight Story is even more approachable.

If you didn't know it was by Lynch you would never suspect it.


On the other end, save Inland Empire for after you've seen a lot of his filmography and are in the mood for a challenge.

I wouldn't call it his best work, but it is Lynch at his most singular and uncompromising.


I would put Twin Peaks: The Return up there too. Beneath the trademark surrealism and whimsy there’s an intense, bittersweet profoundness.

It was the last thing he made for TV/cinema and for me feels like the culmination of everything he did before it.


> Lynch at his most singular and uncompromising

More so than "Eraserhead"?


The Sekiro of Lynch movies. I was defeated by the first dance routine.


Other than the 1980's Dune movie he directed, I think it was either Lost Highway or Mulholland Drive that made me want to know more about David Lynch.

I had to watch Mulholland Drive at least 5 times to get a sense of what it's even about, and I think I must have been the audience for which he made that film, if it wasn't indeed just art to make himself happy (which is the BEST kind).

Anyway, it kind of endears another person to you when you connect with their work. So this one hit kind of hard.

I lost a fellow weirdo, and he'll be missed!


Wild at heart. Very approachable, but gory and brutal. The angst seep trough


Mulholland Drive was my first Lynch movie and led me to watch pretty much everything else he released. I'd still start with Mulholland Drive if I started over again I think.


The lipstick scene. There should be an emoji for that.


Nooooo, not Blue Velvet. That's on my "never watch again" list, because the people in it are so creepy I wanted to just go buy a million guns afterwards.


I feel the same. If Blue Velvet was the first Lynch movie I saw, I surely wouldn't have bothered with the rest, and I would have missed out on what I now consider one of my absolute favorites (Mulholland Drive). Same goes for Eraserhead and Wild at Heart.


It was my first, and I didn't bother with the rest.

There's just something in it that made me viscerally hate it, and I'm usually fond of surreal movies.


It's worth giving Mulholland Drive a look. And the Elephant Man and The Straight Story are nothing like Blue Velvet.


Agree about "Blue Velvet" — too much Dennis Hopper, ha ha. Also agree the "Mulholland Drive" is a masterpiece.


Literally just watched it today and it's definitely in my 10 least favorite movies I've ever watched. Wish I had seen your comment.


But it's also so beautiful; Laura Dern's character is so touching and Kyle McLachlan playing the naif in a world of evil is so moving.

And when they dance together at the end with "Mysteries of Love" playing - wow.


I'd personally say try Mulholland Drive first.


oh boy. I'd understand if you said to try Mullholland Drive first, second, and third and then go from there.


Yes this may be my favorite of his films, and I love pretty much everything he's done


I'd say twin peaks season 1 and first half of season 2 are Lynch's most accessible work


Yes. Definitely his best.


Start with "Eraserhead" and then go from there. Surreal is the word I associate with his movies and tv show (Twin Peaks) and I absolutely love watching such movies!


Dune or Twin Peaks are probably going to be more accessible than anything else.

For Eraserhead, I understand the metaphor of how parenting can be larger-than-life and terrifying and I see how Eraserhead was trying to embody that but I very much didn't appreciate the highly pessimistic ending. It's an early movie that would have benefited immensely from an alternate ending on its DVD.


I think there's a lot more to Eraserhead than that! I also don't really see the ending as pessimistic personally.

Lynch: "Believe it or not, Eraserhead is my most spiritual film."

Lean: "Elaborate on that?"

Lynch: "No, I wont. No one sees it."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjoMEw2RYlA


The Straight Story is almost certainly his most accessible film, while also very focused on themes that he cares about.

It isn't the elusive puzzle that many cinephiles value in his work, but it is clearly a Lynch film, even if it's not a stereotypical one.



It also happens to be just a beautiful film.


His most mainstream work is The Elephant Man, commissioned by Mel Brooks.


The Elephant Man is great, but does have a surreal sequence, and is entirely in black and white. I'd vote for the The Straight Story, which is literally a Disney movie, being more mainstream.


The beauty of Lynch films is that everyone can interpret it in their own way!


I know what you're trying to say, but that's also true of every other movie.


Well Lynch famously said this over and over about his films — that they mean whatever people think they mean.

Watch a few interviews where he is asked what a film of his means. A smirk comes on his face and he repeats his mantra.

He never let on.


I'd argue many creators are this way. Nobody is ever going to approach a piece of art the same way.

Unless you are a narcissist (probable billionare) who feels the need to go back and explain every detail about the wizarding world you created a few decades later and reveal what kind of piece of crap you are.


sure but david lynch obviously lent into that way more than most others. his work is famously obtuse and the experience of each person watching and having that experience and interpreting it on their own was a huge part of the point of his work in a way that just isnt true for many other people


> you are a narcissist (probable billionare)

These days you'll have to be more specific.


No, there's far more room for interpretation than in a typical movie.


Eraserhead is borderline unwatchable. I love David Lynch, sort of, but without telling people that they're about to sit down and watch an hour-and-a-half of what is effectively an unwatchable piece of avant-garde cinema, then they're not going to be able to appreciate it.

There is nothing worse than getting excited to see a famous director's debut film, thinking you're going to have a good time, and then getting Eraserhead.


If someone is not into art films, to not start with Twin Peaks is absolutely insane to me.

First two seasons of Twin Peaks are his masterpiece IMO and his most watchable.

Those are some of the best characters of any film/tv show ever.

From there I would go to Lost Highway next for a stronger dose of the more out there stuff.


Just start with the pilot first -- as it is, the US pilot is basically a feature-length film (it runs 1h25m), and features enough of Lynch's trademark juxtaposition of horrible and mundane, and piles on the warmth and love for his characters that set his works apart. The European cut of the pilot adds a few minutes to the end and originally aired as a TV movie, and may be worth it if you're not otherwise hooked by the show, since it features a definitive ending as well as the first appearance of the show's trademark "red room" (footage from the sequence was included in a later episode in the US).

For me, the second step would either be The Elephant Man or Mulholland Dr. -- many of his works tackle very dark subject matter and include sexualized violence that can be downright disturbing to watch, but those two omit those elements. The Straight Story is much lighter, but largely lacks the surrealism Lynch is known for.


But he didn't direct all of Twin Peaks episodes and it shows.


i tried watching Twin Peaks but my GenZ attention-hungy brain got really bored during the first episode. maybe i should give it another shot...

it's not like i'm not used to watching long movies and i would call myself some form of cinephile, but for some reason Twin Peaks felt unbelievably slow.


Twin peaks is incredible and Agent Cooper is a kind of a role model haha, never seen any other character like him


maybe i should give it another shot...i'll at least finish the first episode :)


Yeah, it’s certainly one of those shows that take a couple episodes to settle in but then it’s one big, sweeping impression


Most of second season of TP wasn't really Lynch.


Eraserhead is highly watchable, but the first time you see it, it's best to just experience it without trying to process it too much. The nuance comes through on repeat viewings.


>Eraserhead is highly watchable

It is a film explicitly designed to be unpleasant. This may be artistically interesting, but it's certainly no going to appeal to most people.


I rented Eraserhead and watched with some friends in college. I loved it, and so did the other Lynch fan. The other two, well, the first words spoken over the credits were “What the actual fuck was that?” Let’s just say it’s a divisive film.


> Surreal is the word I associate with his movies and tv show

And his style of surrealism has been so influential that it has its own term: Lynchian!


The "sausages" skit [1] by kids in the hall I'm pretty sure is massively inspired by eraserhead.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChvxsVgT8c


    When people say "surreal" they mean "real", it's just most of your life is not very real, just repetition and routine. - Norm Macdonald


Season 3 Twin Peaks is peak "I don't know what am I looking at".


It's at least a third watching one of Kyle MacLachlan's characters walking around with brain damage.

I liked the season after a rewatch but the Dougie stuff is still tedious.


The Dougie stuff was silly fun. Cherry pie


It wasn't particularly entertaining and was well overdone.


When it first came out I was so desperate to see it I watched the first episode twice without realising.

I spent the whole time trying to work out what was different between the "two".

I mean, it’s exactly the sort of thing he would do and I still loved it.

Magic!


Can recommend the documentary "David Lynch, The Art Life". For now appears to be here:

https://youtu.be/a6slh83RhfA

(Sorry — it appears to be 360p, not very hi-res. Other higher res versions can be found but with subtitles or dubbed in... maybe Farsi?)


Whether you've seen his movies or not, this 35 second video clip is David Lynch gold ("David Lynch on product placement"):

https://youtu.be/F4wh_mc8hRE?si=SJwtz31ZEWuW9rk7

(Has swearing off that matters for your use!) Rest in peace.


Definitely worth checking out his movies at some point, but his interviews alone leave a lasting impression indeed. He could captivate audiences just by being himself (in a way)


Surprised nobody has mentioned Lost Highway - to me it is the perfect film.


Lost Highway doesn't get the love for some reason. It's got all the DL hits and some of the best cinematography in his oeuvre. The coffee table is peak DL head wound


Gentle intro: Rabbits, on youtube.


Also on YouTube: "David Lynch Cooks Quinoa". It's a short film that is both nothing like his films/TV and everything like his films/TV. It's that "cooking podcast" or "recipe blog" that's a meandering journey through life and maybe has some bon mots about living, but also includes a recipe because it does. Like watching a beloved elderly relative do something normal in the kitchen, but also moody and in black and white.


I loved that short film. I showed it to my wife and she said "That's 20 minutes of my life I'm never getting back."


How does it compare to the salad preparation scene in Eraserhead?


If you only watch one, I think Fire Walk With Me is the most representative. If you like it, there's a lot more to explore. If not, then maybe Lynch isn't your thing.


Look, I love FWWM, but that's a brutal way to start. Firstly, it works a lot better if you know TP. Secondly... it's a brutal film. I've seen it a bunch of times and still find some of it hard to watch.


I think that "fire walk with me" poem is so clunky I've refused to watch anything he's ever made.


Great movie, but I'm not sure I would've enjoyed it as much if I hadn't already watched Twin Peaks.


It was panned when it came out (and still inspires downvoting?? not exactly an objective convo here folks) but since then FWWM has gained tons more appreciation.

Family sexual abuse survivors in particular have lauded the movie. It's really DL's most serious treatment of an issue (but makes it harder to watch too).


"On your fucking telephone. Get real!"


Mmm not a great quote..


Ha, I kind of agree with you, and I'm a little embarrassed it's as upvoted as it is. I just love the silly little video of him saying it and then cracking up. It pops into my head a lot and gives me a laugh. I just felt like sharing it to be goofy. Didn't imagine it would end up at the top of the thread!


> Technically the engines could be optimizing it when no eval used is detected or when in strict mode (which blocks eval),

I just learned about direct vs indirect eval (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe...), which I imagine makes this a bit easier. The parent scope is only captured in a direct eval.


Looks nice! I think I'd only get it if I could use it as a monitor though. Displaying more than grayscale colors would be a plus too. Still glad to see it though.


we aim to build a monitor, but hardware companies arent very hot for VCs, so cash flow from selling the tablet is the primary way we are going to fund building a monitor, phone, and laptop


> and laptop

Maybe start with a screen module for a Framework laptop: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13/tre..., before/instead of trying to engineer a laptop from scratch...


So good to hear! This seems like it would be right up the alley for a company like Nothing Phone


You can use an app called Duet Display on it. It works quite well (can’t remember the exact ms latency now)


> Occasionally I come across comments that make me think “wait, there’s still developers out there who don’t use AI? Like, not at all?” Not just programmers who think that AI is overhyped, no, but programmers who don’t use AI in any shape or form: no ChatGPT, no Copilot, no Cody, no local models, nothing.

Surely this is feigning surprise. The oldest thing in that list is like 18 months old or something, and he's surprised to find literally any programmers that don't use them? I bet I could find a programmer out there who's never used Google, let alone brand new subscription AI services.




Here’s the paper by the discovery team: https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.16530


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