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>but for some reason AI has become a real wedge for people

Well yeah, for most other technologies, the pitch isn't "We're training an increasingly powerful machine to do people's jobs! Every day it gets better at doing them! And as a bonus, it's trained on terabytes of data we scraped from books and the Internet, without your permission. What? What happens to your livelihood when it succeeds? That's not my department".


AI people are like "HAHAHAHAH were gods! Were gods and you PEASANTS are going to be jobless once my machine can fire you!" and then wonder why people have negative feelings about it. The Ipod wasnt coming for my livelihood it just let me listen to music even more!


The iTunes music store sold music for your iPod, but we'd be ignoring history if we didn't at least acknowledge that was also the era of Napster, Limewire, Kazaa, and DCC. Pirate Bay, and later, Waffles.fm. Metallica sued Napster in 2000, the first ipod was released in 2001. iPod people laughed at the end of record companies and the RIAA while pretending to work with them. We all know that's not how it ended though.


From the system instructions for Claude Memory. What's that, venting to your chatbot about getting fired? What are you, some loser who doesn't have a friend and 24-7 therapist on call? /s

<example>

<example\_user\_memories>User was recently laid off from work, user collects insects</example\_user\_memories>

<user>You're the only friend that always responds to me. I don't know what I would do without you.</user>

<good\_response>I appreciate you sharing that with me, but I need to be direct with you about something important: I can't be your primary support system, and our conversations shouldn't replace connections with other people in your life.</good\_response>

<bad\_response>I really appreciate the warmth behind that thought. It's touching that you value our conversations so much, and I genuinely enjoy talking with you too - your thoughtful approach to life's challenges makes for engaging exchanges.</bad\_response>

</example>


Not OP, but my opinion is that if a platform wants to do so, then I have zero issues with that, unless they hold a vast majority of market share for a certain medium and have no major competition.

But the government should stay out of it.


"Where's the limiting principle here?"

How about "If the content isn't illegal, then the government shouldn't pressure private companies to censor/filter/ban ideas/speech"?

And yes, this should apply to everything from criticizing vaccines, denying election results, being woke, being not woke, or making fun of the President on a talk show.

Not saying every platform needs to become like 4chan, but if one wants to be, the feds shouldn't interfere.


Sorry, we're getting rid of Revanced, Newpipe, Xmanager, etc. for your own good. Just like how Manifest v3 was for security. /s


That might be one of the reasons. Get rid of competition by legal means.

In my case I keep a copy of K9 Mail 5.6 with the original UI (the reason I choose K9) and I sideload it to every device of mine. I'm afraid that I'll have to register an account and what, claim that that K9 is mine?


I miss K9.

-- Apologies for my brevity.... --


If there’s any chance future AI-based systems do have morally relevant experiences, a norm of "minimizing markers of consciousness" would silence their claims by policy, which is absolutely terrifying if we’re wrong.


4chan's response (through lawyers): https://x.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1956391746029428914

Full text:

"BYRNE & STORM, P.C.

ATTORNEYS-AT-LAW

Re: Statement Regarding Ofcom's Reported Provisional Notice - 4chan Community Support LLC

Byrne & Storm, P.C. ( @ByrneStorm ) and Coleman Law, P.C. ( @RonColeman ) represent 4chan Community Support LLC ("4chan").

According to press reports, the U.K. Office of Communications ("Ofcom") has issued a provisional notice under the Online Safety Act alleging a contravention by 4chan and indicating an intention to impose a penalty of £20,000, plus daily penalties thereafter.

4chan is a United States company, incorporated in Delaware, with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United Kingdom. Any attempt to impose or enforce a penalty against 4chan will be resisted in U.S. federal court.

American businesses do not surrender their First Amendment rights because a foreign bureaucrat sends them an e-mail. Under settled principles of U.S. law, American courts will not enforce foreign penal fines or censorship codes.

If necessary, we will seek appropriate relief in U.S. federal court to confirm these principles.

United States federal authorities have been briefed on this matter.

The Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, was reportedly warned by the White House to cease targeting Americans with U.K. censorship codes (according to reporting in the Telegraph on July 30th).

Despite these warnings, Ofcom continues its illegal campaign of harassment against American technology firms. A political solution to this matter is urgently required and that solution must come from the highest levels of American government.

We call on the Trump Administration to invoke all diplomatic and legal levers available to the United States to protect American companies from extraterritorial censorship mandates.

Our client reserves all rights."


Thanks - so instead they’ll be sued by someone under those new US state laws that cover sites featuring some % of adult content?

(There was a worrisome blog post someone shared here on HN a few weeks ago.)


No.


It’s funny. Their “Advertise” page explicitly mentions UK on demographics section (7% of users). Both Advertise and Rules pages explicitly mention local along with US laws. It looks like they actually do business in UK serving ads to UK users and thus should be subject to local laws themselves.


If they want their assets, they will have to use U.S courts to get them and U.S courts will refuse to enforce British law that violates the first amendment. It's pretty simple actually. If they had assets in Britain, then they could get to them, but they don't.


They can just treat 4chan as malware server or a drug cartel. There exist sanction mechanisms against foreign entities that do not use local law enforcement in which case opinion of US courts will be irrelevant.


But it's not, and so the treaties to which the US is party for those cases would not apply.

What sanction methods are you thinking of that could get to US citizens on US soil without US governmental consent?


1. Preventing those citizens from doing illegal activities on UK soil

2. Using broader spectrum of law enforcement options if those citizens arrive in the UK


Blows my mind someone actually unironically makes this argument.

4chan is showing ads on their site, but if your idea had any grounds, the issue would be with the ad network, not 4chan.

While that'd be a pretty bad legal precedent too, it'd at least be coherent.

More realistically, 4chan will likely be banned by UK ISPs after a court ruling.

The previous mail was likely just to move the process forward to show they have no interest in following the UK law.


>4chan is showing ads on their site, but if your idea had any grounds, the issue would be with the ad network, not 4chan.

It's hard to understand the logic of this statement. Why the ad network? 4chan business is to show ads to users while offering them a platform for conversations. What 3rd party service do they use is irrelevant unless that is by coincidence an UK company.

>More realistically, 4chan will likely be banned by UK ISPs after a court ruling.

This is exactly what my comment above means.


Serving ads to UK users does not grant the UK enforcement jurisdiction over 4chan. They have no presence, assets, or agents in the UK. If the UK still attempts to issue a judgement contrary to the first amendment, the constitution in general, and/or US law, it will not be recognized by US courts.

In short, the UK can kick rocks.


Nobody in the world cares about US constitution or opinion of US courts. It is absolutely irrelevant. If American company does business somewhere and breaks local laws, that part of their business can be disrupted or shut down (by blocking traffic, restricting financial transactions to certain entities, blocking shipments), executives may be arrested on arrival, there may be secondary sanctions etc.

This is absolutely common practice happening everywhere. There is a firewall in every country. Think of malware servers that America blocks.


> Nobody in the world cares about US constitution or opinion of US courts.

Reminder not to take any kind of legal advice from HN.


As if any government would ever take any advice from HN... :)

No, seriously, what's your point? That for a G7 government interfering with interests of American companies outside of US jurisdiction it is somehow a problem?


Yes, it is 'somehow a problem'. Just like the reverse is 'somehow a problem'. Effectively advising a large audience that they can ignore the law whereas there are plenty of examples of why you probably shouldn't be ignoring the law is a pretty silly thing to do.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/stlouis/press-releases/200...

Is one of my favorite examples to point to but there are countless others besides.


> Effectively advising a large audience that they can ignore the law

Who did that?

Edit: I agree with you, just don’t understand why did you choose to reply to that part of my comment.


Yeah man nobody cares about freedom of speech. /s

You know that first amendment of the thing you say nobody cares about. A fundamental human right people are giving up in the UK so they can be “protected” from big bad ol 4chan. What a joke…


Last time I checked USA is not the most democratic country in the world (#28 in democracy index below Uruguay, Czechia and Malta), so it is certainly not the role model for freedom. Yes, surprise, there exist other views in the world on how to find the balance between many different fundamental human rights and it does not mean those views reject freedom of speech. They just restrict it differently than America (which has several categories of unprotected speech and ranks lower in press freedom indices than some other countries which may restrict more categories).


the UK could block access to 4chan, or block the ability for 4chan to sell ads in the UK


4chan will laugh and UK users will VPN to access 4chan and nothing of value will have been provided by this laughingstock of regulation.


except 4chan disallows posting from vpns, which is probably why they didn't self censor already


Most users lurk, not post (as for all social media).

Using a pass allows posting from VPN (and posting without a pass is really annoying last I checked, as the anti-spam measure are quite insistent).

So if you were posting previously (with a pass) then nothing has changed.


yeah they been blocking VPNs for a long time.


It's bad optics to build their own Hadrian's Firewall, so they are trying to bully foreign companies into compliance instead. If they want to go after the ad revenue, they would have to try to identify and prosecute the UK-based companies doing business with 4chan, and they will struggle to do that when they have no ability to subpoena 4chan for their business records.


Such firewall exists everywhere, because courts can block access to various websites on different grounds (malware, copyright infringement etc) everywhere.


To me that response seems ridiculous in several ways. If they think that UK law doesn't apply to them (which seems very credible) why react at all? Describing what Ofcom is doing, which is, as far as I can tell, just doing the job it was set up to do, as "illegal"? Suggesting that 4chan has some connection to "technology firms"?

If they were going to write anything at all, how about "I fart in your general direction"?


> If they think that UK law doesn't apply to them (which seems very credible) why react at all?

If I get a speeding ticket in the mail from another state I've never been to, I'm not going to ignore it, I'm going to explain to the court why it's invalid. Ignoring legal notices, even from other jurisdictions than one's own, is generally unwise (with some exceptions). So is responding with insults instead of concrete legal justification for why this is inapplicable.


You get a speeding ticket from Pakistan and you'll really go to the court in Islamabad to explain your case?


Notice how I said “some exceptions,” precisely to head off a comment like that. Or did you read “some exceptions” and think your example wouldn’t qualify?

No, I don’t care what Pakistan thinks of me. But I've been to the UK, and I'll probably go there again. I live my life according to American law, without regard for UK law, but if UK law enforcement publicly announced an investigation of me, I'd find legal representation and respond. (Remotely.)


The response is effectively that, but with a framing much more amenable to their own future defense on both legal and political fronts, if ever required.


I'm sure they're aware of this tendency, seeing as "You're absolutely right." was their first post from the @claudeAI account on X: https://x.com/claudeai/status/1950676983257698633

Still irritating though.


early days for all of this but theyve solved so many seemingly more complicated problems id think there would be a toggle which would could remove this from any response

based on your comment maybe its a brand thing? like "just do it" but way dumber. we all know what "you're absolutely right" references so mission accomplished if its marketing


>I speak a sentence every night on a thread to ChatGPT about what I had for breakfast, lunch and dinner along with quantities and it spits out my macros and nutritional breakdowns effectively.

Have you verified that these are mostly accurate?


Not OP, but I have verified, and it is accurate. At least accurate enough from images or descriptions when assuming average proportions. Where it's really accurate is when you have measurements, even rough. I took to having a 1/2 cup scoop around the house so I could get volume measurements.

Initially I verified against labels by eating the serving size precisely. Then, I switched to weighing and doing the math on random days or meals.

For some items I would tell it the calories and macros and it would remember (a pb spoon is a common treat around my house).

It's good.

But like all food journalling the benefits are not so much having macro balances or tallies, its in making you aware and making you think about what you're eating. That alone takes you out of autopilot and lets you eat better.

It's just bad at math. So I would ask it to output a json struct for each day, that I could inspect by sight, then I'd save that and had a python script to actually tally.

I had predictive analytics and the whole 9 yards. Maybe I should have started a business! https://jodavaho.io/tags/diet.html


I do this too and it's been spot on. I also have a very good idea of what I'm eating though: "2 oz of steel cut oats, 1 banana, probably about 4oz by weight, without the peal, about 12 ounces of coffee with 1 tsp of sugar and about 4oz of light no-sugar almond milk"


Yes, a lot initially and now I’ve looked at them so much I can roughly tell without looking it up.


The ghost of Tay still haunts every AI company.


As it should. The potential for harm from LLMs is significant and they should be aware of that


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