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> you have the timing wrong. " In filings in May 2017

Conceded. Pardon me--cannot edit the original comment.

> it was solicited, as they were written as a legal response to a legal claim

Do we know these filings were in response to a legal claim? It could have been in response to something more frivolous. (I am having trouble finding the filing.)

> Do you believe that criminal defense attorneys express a policy preference that say, murder is okay?

One, this isn't a criminal matter. It isn't even being judicially decided. These are confidential regulatory proceedings.

Two, when criminal defense attorneys defend a murder suspect, they don't advocate overturning murder statute. There is a wide berth between arguing against the facts and circumstances of a case and arguing for overturning a law.

Three, I've been in senior roles at companies in regulatory deliberations and litigation. Each time, company counsel briefed senior management on the arguments they were preparing. More than once, someone asked if an argument was essential. Once, it was. (It was maintained.) Another time, it wasn't. Concerned about a client relationship getting caught in the cross-fire, the argument was dropped and the case amended.

When you give a shit about a constituency, you don't argue for overturning their rights.



"Do we know these filings were in response to a legal claim? It could have been in response to something more frivolous. (I am having trouble finding the filing.)"

Yes, it is in front of proceeding at the NLRB that they have to exhaust before they can file in court.

"Two, when criminal defense attorneys defend a murder suspect, they don't advocate overturning murder statute. There is a wide berth between arguing against the facts and circumstances of a case and arguing for overturning a law."

Oh come now. Every single lawyer worth his salt is going to argue the law should be overturned when it doesn't favor their client. I'm very surprised you are trying to claim otherwise. Even in criminal proceedings there is almost always a "this statute is unconstitutional on its face" argument thrown in, even when that statute is something like "protect children from being run over by cars". This is similarly true in the civil proceedings of the kind we are talking about - just about every regulatory action has arguments about the propriety of existing case law or statutes.

"Three, I've been in senior roles at companies in regulatory deliberations and litigation. Each time, company counsel briefed senior management on the arguments they were preparing. More than once, someone asked if an argument was essential. Once, it was. (It was maintained.) Another time, it wasn't. Concerned about a client relationship getting caught in the cross-fire, the argument was dropped and the case amended."

FWIW: I have been in multiple large companies in that role (for 8+ years), and nobody would ever brief senior management on a claim like this one. It's way too low level.

"When you give a shit about a constituency, you don't argue for overturning their rights."

I'm glad this is all very black and white to you and that you can easily reduce complex situations to quips and feel like it does it justice. I wish i could feel that way. It would actually make life a lot easier.

There are no right answers in these situations, only shitty tradeoffs.

(It's not even as simple as:

Don't make argument, allow/pay out frivolous claim which hurts current constituents.

vs

Make argument, destroy constituent rights )


> There are no right answers in these situations, only shitty tradeoffs

Companies have lee-way in where they make those trade-offs. Just because a company could argue to roll back back rights for gays or women doesn't mean they have to. And if they choose to advocate for rolling back protective rules, they'll deservedly get flack.

> FWIW: I have been in multiple large companies in that role (for 8+ years), and nobody would ever brief senior management on a claim like this one. It's way too low level.

This might say more about the corporate cultures you've been exposed to than what is normal or right.

Accepting your argument, we have a multi-billion dollar tech company, rightfully in the political cross-hairs, viewing its workers' rights as "way too low level" to merit management's attention. Furthermore, following a first-hand experience with why such organization rules are important, the official response is shying away from a defense. Nothing in the way of meaningful action.


the person you are arguing with has real credentials in this matter (lawyer) and works for the company we are discussing. Even if you don't agree with him, he's knowledgeable and honest about the situation.


[flagged]


I'm not assuming he's honest; he's a person I worked with for many years and developed a respect for his honesty and technical precision when it comes to legal matters.

If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. I understand that you believe he could be motivated to be inaccurate to defend his employer. I am giving a third-party account supporting his statement.


No, it shouldn't, actually. But it seems you will.




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