I really don't think being accessible to non-programmers is the cause of my issues. If anything, I'd say that targeting non-programmers might exacerbate these issues, because those users would be less likely to realize how unintuitive some aspects of Max are, thinking it's because programming in general is difficult.
I didn't touch too much on the specifics in my post, but there are lots of little design oddities I ran into when doing relatively simple tasks. Like creating a multiplexer for messages: the [switch] object has an "empty" channel for input 0 (and regular inputs are 1-indexed), so you'll often need an extra +1 object for the control input. And the inputs of [switch] have no memory, so every time the control changes, you need to send a bang to resend the message in the now-active channel. Or say you want to multiplex signals. That uses the [selector~] object (why not [switch~]?), and has the same +1 issue as [switch]. But what if you want a short crossfade when switching inputs to avoid harsh transients? "Good luck" is all I'll say here.
I'm not generally trying to do anything super-complicated with Max. I have indeed used the C extension API when it makes sense (building a wavetable synth), and it was OK. I still contend that the main visual programming environment is not very good, for programmers and non-programmers alike.
...anyways, all that said, Scheme For Max looks really cool :)
I didn't touch too much on the specifics in my post, but there are lots of little design oddities I ran into when doing relatively simple tasks. Like creating a multiplexer for messages: the [switch] object has an "empty" channel for input 0 (and regular inputs are 1-indexed), so you'll often need an extra +1 object for the control input. And the inputs of [switch] have no memory, so every time the control changes, you need to send a bang to resend the message in the now-active channel. Or say you want to multiplex signals. That uses the [selector~] object (why not [switch~]?), and has the same +1 issue as [switch]. But what if you want a short crossfade when switching inputs to avoid harsh transients? "Good luck" is all I'll say here.
I'm not generally trying to do anything super-complicated with Max. I have indeed used the C extension API when it makes sense (building a wavetable synth), and it was OK. I still contend that the main visual programming environment is not very good, for programmers and non-programmers alike.
...anyways, all that said, Scheme For Max looks really cool :)