I agree that God created the weather and doesn't predict it. I only brought up the weather as an example of systems that humans can predict with high success despite that prediction not having any causal impacts. The predictors don't by their prediction cause the predicted. So we have an example of a system where there is some kind of mechanism by which we see that it is possible to know without causing.

I agree with you as well that it would be...unfair in some sense to punish or blame people for their bad choices. I think this is complex enough that the only way to treat the subject with nuance is to consider a specific religious theology. This is because we need to know what God's attributes are.

In the typical Abrahamic sense, God is considered to be perfect and holy. That is why he cannot be in the same place as sin without just destroying it. It's the same with how light in a dark room necessarily lights up the darkness. It just cannot help but light up the darkness - it is in its nature. But since God is also perfect in love and in mercy, this means that he doesn't really blame people for much. In fact, that's why he forgives and saves and loves. If he really blamed or punished people for their choices, well, nobody would make it. But again, my view is that God is love and that mercy is his greatest attribute. And that this is consistent with his perfection.

>So we have an example of a system where there is some kind of mechanism by which we see that it is possible to know without causing.

How is it possible for God to not be the cause of all things since he's is the creator of all things? If god did not cause something then that means there is something that god did not create and came from somewhere else.

Revelation 21:6 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

>. That is why he cannot be in the same place as sin without just destroying it.

So god did not create sin? This seems in contradiction with him creating all things.

>But since God is also perfect in love and in mercy, this means that he doesn't really blame people for much.

Genesis 3:16 - To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.

Sound like blame and punishment to me that all women get to share for ones choice long ago to eat from the tree of knowledge, pure idiocy.

> How is it possible for God to not be the cause of all things since he's is the creator of all things? If god did not cause something then that means there is something that god did not create and came from somewhere else.

> Revelation 21:6 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

Indeed, he created all things at least at their Base level and maybe a little bit of customization over generations to intervene in things for specific reasons. But one fo the things he made was life and that includes human beings and he imbued them with free will, which is what we were discussing. So the free will animates or allows these organisms to behave randomly at times mostly to enjoy unique traits and characteristics and preferences, but also to learn how to be like God and to love too. But this requires that it be a choice, to the extent of someone's knowledge of who God is.

> So god did not create sin? This seems in contradiction with him creating all things.

He did not, except to the extent that he allows choice in matters of love or no love and the ultimate consequence of this to be reflected on a temporary physical world. Sin is more like evil - it is the absence of something.

> Genesis 3:16 - To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.

> Sound like blame and punishment to me that all women get to share for ones choice long ago to eat from the tree of knowledge, pure idiocy.

Yeah, it kinda does suck. But just like sin entered the world through their choices, eternal life and heaven became available to everyone because of what Jesus did. That's what the rest of the book says, in a nutshell. So it's a fair trade. But for them, it was still a pleasant world if you think about it. They were the only ones and they pretty much just got booted out of the Garden of Eden and had to live in their own settlement and stop making so much noise around God's guarden for a while. They were so dependent on God for everything, even some clothing, that God had to install some automation to block the entrance back into the house so that they could finally become self-reliant and dominate everything and have adventures and love. And yes, unfortunately sometimes face evil.

> So the free will animates or allows these organisms to behave randomly at times mostly to enjoy unique traits and characteristics and preferences, but also to learn how to be like God and to love too. But this requires that it be a choice, to the extent of someone's knowledge of who God is.

You seem to be avoiding my core point or simply don’t understand it. God created everything or he did not. If I program a game world and beings within it if I don’t introduce outside entropy through a RNG or other outside input then it will be deterministic and no choice the virtual beings inside make will not be able to be predicted.

If God uses outside entropy then there is something he did not create there is a larger universe bigger than him from which he can draw outside input on to feed his creations to test them on their non deterministic choices and punish them for making the wrong ones. Otherwise he is testing for something he already knows the outcome of which makes no sense.

> He did not, except to the extent that he allows choice in matters of love or no love and the ultimate consequence of this to be reflected on a temporary physical world. Sin is more like evil - it is the absence of something

Sorry this is nonsense, the ability to “not love” was choice that god created, evil does not exist without god first creating it unless he did not create everything.