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"You can't take data without asking" seems like a court precedent OpenAI really, really, really wants to avoid. And yet...


Why? When did large companies care about laws? See e.g. Uber, AirBnb.

The only thing government cares about at this point is if information is shared with China.


They care when they get big enough to attract attention from people like state AGs who can actually put the hurt on a bit. Uber and AirBnB both hit this point years ago; OpenAI's starting to hit it.


Altman is part of that Stargate Trump group now. He and his ilk will just get pardons.

Curious, though, can a corporation be pardoned?


The President can only pardon Federal crimes.

State-level crimes (like his NY felonies) and civil torts (like his case where he owes $500M currently) are separate.


Yet. Give it some time.


Sure, but in that scenario, it's a bit like the Last of Us characters being concerned about electrical meter readings. We'll have much bigger problems.


OpenAI is saying that their service was used in violation of their TOS, which is a bit different than just copying data. To be clear I’m not on OpenAI’s side, but it looks to me that the legal situation isn’t exactly analogous.


If using data violating some ToS taints the model trained on that data, then all of OpenAI's models are tainted by the millions of ToS'es they broke.


Can you cite a source showing they violated ToS?


Not just violated but also actively ignored: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42718850


As others have noted, if one company agrees to the ToS, asks "the right" questions and then publishes the ChatGPT answers, there is not violation of ToS. Then a second company scrapes the published Q&A, along with other information from the internet and again there is no violation (not more than the violations of OpenAI).


> OpenAI is saying that their service was used in violation of their TOS

Which is the most ridiculous argument they could use because they didn't respect any ToS (or copyright laws, for that matter) when scraping the whole web, books from Libgen and who knows what more.


But whats the remedy in that case? Being banned from the service maybe, but no court is going to force a "return" of the data, so DeepSeek can't use it. It's uncopyrightable.


Tons of websites and books they scraped had copyright notices.


Copyright and terms of service are different legal notions.


Yeah, copyright means something and a ToS is virtual toiletpaper (at least in the EU)


This wasn’t about which is worse than the other, but about whether OpenAI would want to avoid court precedent for the one because of the other.




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