Do you only want us to get our news once daily via a physically printed and distributed newspaper? That’s the timeframe that we used to use for news updates. If not (I.e., you’re in favor of keeping the Internet), how would you reconcile the asymmetry between trading and news updates? If there is a disparity between these timescales, you end up with markets gapping hugely every time they open. This just increases risk and volatility. Yes, markets do this overnight today, but 24-hour markets don’t do this as much and they allow a trader to set stop orders that are active overnight to protect positions. So, for instance, futures markets will gap over a weekend break, but because they trade 23 hours per day during the week, they are much more smooth than they would otherwise be. Compare gaps in ES SPX futures contracts vs. gaps in the SPX itself, for instance. In general, smoother is better for everyone.
Humans do still manually trade. The existence of HFTs doesn't prevent or interfere with that, in fact it makes it easier by ensuring that prices are more likely to be converged to a consensus market price at any given millisecond.
Thinks of it like this. When I put in a trade at human speeds based on business fundamentals, I'm not looking that the millisecond by millisecond prices, I just put in a price I am willing to accept and if the market reaches that price I get execution. HFT makes that easier and more efficient across markets by ensuring prices are converged rapidly.
How do you think it makes it harder or worse? If I put in an order to buy at $x on a particular market because I think the stock is worth more than that for business reasons, what is it about the existence of HFT that is a problem for me?
Disagree? You think milliseconds is “better” somehow?
Then by that logic microseconds are better still! (A straight-faced argument made by thousands of HFT people.)
Then, surely, nanoseconds matter. Again, some traders care deeply about shaving single digit “nanos” off their response times by using smart NICs that can respond before the incoming packet has even finished arriving! Bypassing the CPU entirely because ermahgerd that would waste precious nanos!
Okay, what about femtoseconds? Attoseconds? Low single digit Plank time units?
Clearly the extrapolation is nonsense.
The problem is that there’s always an advantage to some rent-seeker to be faster than everyone else, so there will never be consensus between them and the general public. Or each other.
It’s a classic tragedy of the commons.
This is why laws are required, to prevent that one greedy guy putting “just one more cow” onto the pasture than the other greedy guys.
This is the “speculation is bad” take with a side of naïveté about how markets work.
Open an order book. Prices and quantities aren’t decoration; they’re live telemetry for supply, demand, and how tight the crowd’s consensus is at each level. That’s information, full stop.
A human (or machine) trader forms a view of fair value against that tape. The book helps decide how to trade—size, urgency, venue—regardless of motive: arbitrage, hedge, speculation, investment, cash-out. Intent doesn’t change the math.
Prints are messages. Every execution updates everyone else’s priors. More prints → more information → smoother discovery.
Make the book sparse—only a handful of trades per day—and watch confidence collapse. With weaker consensus and wider error bars, people step back. Liquidity thins, friction rises. That’s not morality; that’s microstructure.
Time horizon doesn’t invalidate the signal. A strategy that unfolds over days and one that resolves in milliseconds both add to the dataset. If it trades, it teaches. More resolution in others’ behavior means better prices and deeper books. That’s the game.
Millisecond trading strategies have zero relationship to information about companies or economic fundamentals and are therfore not economically productive. They're exploiting microstructure inefficiencies like latency arbitrage, order front-running, not price discovery. That's not 'teaching' the market it's a tax on everyone else's execution. The fact that it's legal doesn't make it structurally useful. It is just a result of the rules not being updated when trading became automated at superhuman speeds
> Millisecond trading strategies have zero relationship to information about companies or economic fundamentals and are therfore not economically productive
It is not clear to me that the only economically productive information is "information about companies or economic fundamentals."
If I know some idiot is willing to pay 100x what a company is actually worth, that is economically productive because it gives me, someone better with money, a ton of resources that formerly were controlled by someone who didn't know how to leverage the assets in an economically productive manner. IT's the same argument as allowing adverse possession: transfer of assets from non-productive owners to productive owners, benefiting society as a whole.
With this, I've established a third kind of data beyond "economic fundamentals" and "information about companies."
Right. “Worth” and “price” are relative notions that are only useful when paired with a point of view. What’s your house “worth?” You might have a number in your head, but unless you have a buyer willing to transact at that price, your house isn’t worth what you think it is. And this relates to economically productive information. Your house might also be worth more if one knows that there is gold or oil buried underneath. It might make more economic sense to bulldoze the house and start mining or drilling.
The boundary is "arbitrary", but clearly there has to be one, otherwise we're all nodding in agreement as trading speed heads inexorably towards Plank time units.
We have some convenient "lines in the sand" that we can use as a guide:
- To make trading fair globally, the round-trip time for light around the planet could be multiplied a couple of times. That's about a second.
- The fastest possible time a human can parse the meaning of a long headline (not the full news article!) is... about a second.
- Nobody in their right mind should be buying any significant volume of shares without double-checking their order. There's no way to do this even vaguely carefully in under... a second.
Etc...
Bots trading faster than a second are trading with each other, and the only signals they have are each other.
Humans are what markets are for, not bots.
This reminds me of a story from WWII where a bunch of generals took a holiday at the same time, leaving a junior general in charge. He was in a bit of a panic because he was expecting to be overloaded with work... but found it easy. The generals were making work for each other by requesting reports, organising meetings with each other, etc...
Bots make work for bots, they generate signals for bots ever faster, to be processed by faster bots still, etc...
It's just... nonsense. Zero real information is being generated, they're just "riffing" off of the much less frequent human-initiated trades, all of which take minutes to organise and execute with due diligence.
It's like being asked to write a 10-page essay on a three-line poem.
And you keep incessantly posting about the moral evils of speculation which is only tangentially related to the Texas Stock Exchange. I guess morality policing makes your comments better?
It's a tradeoff. Suppose you are relegated to trading once per minute and you need to allocate $x per trade to make a profit. If you can trade 100 times per minute you need $x/100 to make a profit.
Or, maybe your strategy doesn't make money when you can trade once per minute, but does at a higher frequency.
What is fair about saying someone has to have 100x the capital to participate? You are focusing only on one dimension of cost, when there are several.
The only non-arbitrary boundary is the one set by physics. Everything else is arbitrary. There are ways to greatly reduce front-running of orders, but that actually is an orthogonal issue to HFT and microstructure level trading.
