Wait until you learn that most people's writing skills are that of below LLMs, so it's an actual tangible improvement (as long as you review the output for details not being missed, of course)

Hoisted by your own petard ("me old fruit"):

"Wait until you learn that most people's writing skills are that of below LLMs"

... went askew at "that of below LLMs".

I'm an arse: soz!

No need to apologize for a correction. That's not the culture I want to live in.

As long as you are also paying attention to the content and not just form.

The desired result is coming to a documented agreement on an interaction, not some exercise in argument that has to happen between humans.

I find having an LLM create tickets for itself to implement to be an effective tool that I rarely have to provide feedback for at all.

This seems like greybeards complaining that people who don't write assembly by hand.

Who has ever complained that kids don't write assembly by hand?

Stop being outraged for things that are only real on your mind.

Speaking of things that are only real in your mind...

Am I outraged?

And yes, there absolutely was a vocal group of a certain type of programmer complaining about high level languages like C and their risks and inefficiency and lack of control insisting that real programmers wrote code in assembly. It's hard to find references because google sucks these days and I'm not really willing to put in the effort.

You made it up, that is why you can't find it.

How's [0] or [1] for historical sources?

It's not surprising that Google doesn't turn these up, the golden era of this complaining was pre-WWW.

[0]: https://www.ee.torontomu.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html [1]: https://melsloop.com/

Have you not noticed that the story you reference is so well know because... literally every single developer thinks people like Mel are crazy?

Mel or Terry Adams are the exception to the rule... Having that image of greybeards only come if you have never worked with one in real life, sorry you are biased.

What? Mel is regarded as deserving massive respect, not as crazy. If a developer thinks Mel is nuts, they are coming from a perspective I don't understand.

And yes, the shift to higher level languages like C, FORTRAN, etc., was regarded by some as pandering to the new generation that didn't want to actually learn programming.

With some truth, in my opinion. I think higher level languages bring huge benefits, so I'm not bemoaning their existence. But it still weirds me out when there's a professional developer that doesn't have at least a cursory knowledge of assembly. AI programming assistance (which I'm sure will be very different than today's 'vibe coding') does seem like a similar state change. I certainly don't object to it in principle, it will probably be a large productivity improvement.

But I'm sure that with it, there will be the loss of fundamental knowledge for some people. Like digital artists who never learn the properties of real paint.