> the autocomplete behavior in Safari is totally broken.
I'm looking for a genuine honest answer here, this really isn't rhetorical. Every second thread regarding Apple seems to have top comments complaining about the quality of what Apple has become. The first I recall was the butterfly keyboard fiasco, then some others, then El Capitan and Big Sur bugs, then this.
Again, I really want to understand this: why the continued loyalty?
I’ve used a maxed out ThinkPad X1 Extreme and a maxed out MacBook Pro side by side. At a glance, very comparable specs. The MacBook Pro was a nicer experience. Not loyalty, it’s just better. The complaints are typically more of a, “You’ve gotten so many things right and better than everyone else, why is this rough edge still a problem!?”
Meanwhile my maxed out MBP 16 suffers from consistent kernel panics and reboots any time I plug into a thunderbolt dock. This is my first Mac after being in Windows land for a long time and getting fed up with recurring driver/firmware issues with my Dell XPS15 (fantastic hardware, terrible software/firmware integration though).
There are definitely things that are nicer on OSX, but there are also a lot of warts that people seem to gloss over. Finder is an absolute abomination as a file explorer and it boggles my mind that this is the best OSX has to offer after years of refinement. Having to install a separate utility to switch mouse scroll directions when using a BT mouse is also ridiculous. You have to shell out money just to have basic features your OS should provide like window management (Better touch tool / magnet).
External monitor rendering is really bad if you connect to a non HDPI monitor. Thunderbolt dock integration is pretty atrocious if you are trying to connect to more than one external monitor. And the OS keeps getting more locked down so opening a simple Word file takes > 5 seconds because of all the sandboxing going on in Catalina.
There are definitely things OSX / MBP does much better, but everyone acts like it is far superior to Windows-based laptops, and I have unfortunately been rather surprised at the large number of pain points I have had with my MBP... none of which have anything to do with me having spent more time on Windows.
There is a very good chance that a colleague of mine who has been a life-long OSX user and I will end up switching back to a windows-based laptop in a couple of years. Windows is far more dev friendly and with WSL2 + CUDA + GUI apps on the roadmap, a solid Windows laptop with an nVidia GPU looks like a much more interesting proposition even if I have to put up with some rough edges.
One thing that our IT people complain a lot about is that some of the macbooks don't have enough power on their USB ports/port replicator, so you can't attach some USB devices when on battery.
Even more infuriating, for some projectors don't work without the notebook (because the port-replicator does not have enough power).
I also find it very interesting that if there is a problem with a some website/file/software mac-users blame it on the software (and actually windows users agree even if it works fine for them), but if it's a Linux user that has problems, it's always "because he/she is using Linux"
I totally agree about "Finder" - a better name might have been "Loser" - since it's only good at making you lose things.
I switched from Windows to Mac about 6 years ago - because I needed an all-in-one system that could compile iOS, Android and UWP apps. However even 6 years later I still have problems with Finder - big problems - it just doesn't behave at all how I expect. I often find myself using Windows Explorer (in my Parallels VM) to navigate the file system because it is just so much easier and predictable.
This perspective makes tons of sense. Safari is a rough edge for me, and I don't even use Apple - I think most of my hatred for the platform is derived from supporting that awful browser.
For my wedding website, I simply wanted to overlay some lines on MapBox with shadows to look like strings and pins on a map. My approach used dynamic SVG (changing a path attribute when the map is moved/tilted/whatever). This performed perfectly on my PC, on my Pixel and even the shitty Samsung browser my fiance uses. It completely annihilated all Apple devices I tried it on (locking up my friend's iPhone entirely), I had to remove the shadows. I really wish they would get it right, or allow alternate browser engines.
Re: the butterfly keys... Yeah, they’re way more susceptible to debris than scissor switches (and I guess more fragile if you like to hammer on your keys). I’ve had to turn my laptop over and blow it out once or twice. But honestly I prefer the key feel and it’s not been a problem. I see the appeal of where they were going. It was a compromise and it didn’t go over well for a vocal and large enough minority that they unwound it. I’ll miss my butterfly keys when I refresh though.
I have the opposite. I have a now two year old midrange Lenovo Yoga and a brand new midrange MBP. The MBP runs hot under Thunderbolt, becomes unresponsive under even moderate load, and requires a dance of "turn the monitor on, turn the monitor off, unplug the cable, plug the cable in" everytime I wake it from sleep with an external monitor. I've had to download software to turn the fan curve to "always on all the time", because the combination of Radeon + Thunderbolt hits 70 degrees at idle, and if I don't, the CPU throttles to nothing.
I can definitely see why the coffee-shop set would love this machine, since it works really well on the couch (disconnected from everything) but it's been borderline unusable tethered to my desk. In that situation, I don't care about the large trackpad, because I use the same external mouse as on all my other machines.
Don't even get me started on third party software quality.
There’s an overheating issue with charging from the left side on MBPs that could be a factor. Otherwise, as a counterpoint, I have a great experience driving the Pro Display XDR with the MBP.
I've played around with this, and it doesn't make a _huge_ amount of difference - I currently charge on the RHS just to be sure, but I have my external monitor dongle on the left.
I'm sure the Apple product to Apple product compatibility is great, but I don't really want to have to buy an entire new monitor just so that my work laptop doesn't suck.
X1 Extreme, sorry for the confusion. Edited the original.
The trackpad was a huge one for me. I really couldn’t bear it. I did like the ThinkPad keyboard though. The 135W charger was also a ThinkPad win. I would be tempted by a ThinkPad in the future if they could get anywhere near as good a trackpad as the MacBook.
Oh! Also the MacBook speakers and mics are lightyears better. The ThinkPad speakers are an embarrassing tinny downward firing mess. MacBook on the other hand shock me the sound comes from something so small (my 2015 MBP was already good and much better than 2019 X1E... 2019 MBP is totally another league.. made me stop packing Bluetooth speakers while traveling on some occasions).
Someone told me that it’s the people we love the most that make us the most angry. Apple products are unreal (both software and hardware). People get really frustrated with little annoyances all the time and get quite heated. But, ask them to switch, and the answer is “hell no”. Bugs should be fixed for sure, but still minor in the grand scheme of things.
I understand this perspective. I understand why people think that Windows is a hot mess, I has earned that reputation and them some.
I haven't had Windows do stupid shit in over two years. Updating it is a habit once in a while, possibly barely more frequently than it forces (unless I hear about a big vulnerability on HN). I'd probably be annoyed if I didn't understand how important updates were and kept postponing them (until it forced me to apply them, and it really does).
That's the only real complaint people really have of Windows these days. Then there's my complaint: Privacy.
Especially concerning Edge, that Microsoft keeps doing. It hasn't happened to me. Maybe because I have both FF and Chrome installed? Or some group policy I forgot I applied? I have no idea. During login a few days ago it asked for consent on a bunch of things that were previously opt-out, annoying for 2 minutes, but honestly healthy in the long run and a needed change.
Apple wins the privacy war any day of the week, but Windows really is Apple without the little annoyances. If you configure it like I did (and I couldn't tell you how).
Good god, I agree about privacy, but as somebody who does .NET dev for her day job, how did you get rid of the annoyances?
Some of these are little stuff but, off the top of my head: I can't understand the different between these smart "locations" and folders in explorer (documents vs my documents, why everything is under desktop in some file pickers, why C:\ is so hard to get to these days) even after using windows for going on two decades, the system makes me confirm I want to delete something twice (first it asks me if I want to move something to the recycle bin, then it asks me if I want to empty the recycle bin. you only need one! the whole point of having the recycle bin is so that deleting isn't dangerous), the win10 start menu is cluttered and has ads in it and I don't want to spend so much time mucking with tiles, usage of menu bars is utterly inconsistent, and there are seemingly no strong UI conventions for third-party apps. There are at least three and probably four layers of control panel these days, and the newest one almost never has the feature I'm looking for. Search is still bad, and finds what I don't want far more often than what I do.
That being said it has yet to BSOD on me after a couple years of use and that's more I can say about any other version of windows
Use Classic Start. I get it through Ninite. It's perfect.
Shift-delete removes the recycle bin portion. If you access the recycle bin as infrequently as most people (read: only when the drive complains about space), you won't really be concerned about an extra confirmation.
Smart locations are pretty frustrating but I don't remember the last time they weren't just folders under the user directory, similar to MacOS and Linux. My Documents is a legacy shim, Simba. You must never go there.
I think the UI conventions thing is a matter of personal preference. I really like applications that use a UI convention that suits the application. PowerPoint and Google Chrome are different apps for different purposes, so they should have different UIs.
The Settings app/Control Panel is unforgivably broken. That said, if you search for what you want in the start menu, it's usually pretty good at finding it. But yeah, the ODBC driver connection dialog from 3.1 is still in there somewhere.
You can also open an Explorer window and then enter the location that you want to go to into the location bar. <Win+E><Ctrl+L>C:<Enter> takes you to C: and <Win+E><Ctrl+L>Control Panel<Enter> takes you to the "old" control panel, instead of the confusing new "Settings" UI. <Win+E><Ctrl+L>Network Connections<Enter> also works and is often useful because all the newer network configuration utilities are useless. <Win+X>A gives you an administrative prompt. While in an open explorer window, [<Ctrl+Space>]<Shift+Menu>S will give you a regular prompt in the current folder.
These are the small quality-of-life tricks that I use daily. I am not going to claim it makes it enjoyable, though.
Windows hasn't required confirmations for deletions in years. And the Documents vs My documents folder makes me think it's your organisations setup that is to blame for much of this.
Don't use classic start either. Just remove the pinned stuff from the start menu and it's like your using Windows 2000 again.
We complain because we want Apple to return to the quality it had. I know all about Windows and Linux, I get to help my wife out with her HP/MS problems all the time and I use Linux professionally every day.
I'm loyal to Apple because the alternatives are so terrible.
I guess the real question is, why are Windows people so loyal? I kind of get Linux loyalty and that would be my second choice.
Good question. I've already bailed out. After many satisfied years with Apple never thought I'd say this but having a much better time with Windows and wsl2. If that wasn't available would have went to linux. Used to look forward to Apple's keynotes and innovations. It's been all downhill since 2015 and I don't see it getting any better. Wish it would, but it's clear someone else is going to have to take charge of Apple before that happens.
I've seen continued decline in the quality of autocorrect on the relatively new swipe-to-text keyboard, increasingly poor siri voice recognition, and have also noticed this behavior in Safari that frustrates me to no end when it happens.
I think the reason I'm still here is trust in the overall product, along with some heavily rose tinted glasses. I still use other products sometimes and almost always only find problems that would prevent me from switching. So perhaps it's also some monopolistic behavior impacting my personal behavior.
I do software development and music production. I am not as thrilled with Apple products as I once was, but they remain my preferred choice for what I want to do with my computers. Inadequate selection of music software for GNU/Linux, and I find Windows just generally unpleasant to use.
I’m a long time Apple user (and professional Android developer/user up until about 3 years ago). My answer is that I use Apple mobile products because they seem to still be better than all alternatives.
That said, I haven’t looked earnestly at Android phones for about 3 years. I also use an iPad as my primary computer for everything when I’m not on the clock, and I’m fairly confident there’s not much competition in the high-end tablet market.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve tried Google Pixel products for Android phone + tablet. They’re expensive, but they are the best. I use both Android and iOS devices regularly everyday. I wouldn’t waste my time on anything but Google products for Android.
It’s also the only fair comparison of Android to iOS: when using Pixel, the OS & hardware are dictated by Google just like Apple does with the OS & hardware for its phones.
I have good & bad to say about each, but pointless to share them. My peeves are nnot yours and vice-versa.
I have been an Apple user for almost my entire adult life. Most of my friends and family are on iPhones. I have a personal and a work Macbook. I have a lot of Apple momentum in my life.
Is there something so good about the Pixel ecosystem I should consider a switch?
From my experience, Pixels are great mainly because they are just as fluid as iphones and aren't bloated with crap that basically every android hardware vendor puts on. I tried out a htc one and a samsung galaxy s4 and went straight back to iphones as the software was just so laggy and bloated. My pixel 2 feels just as fluid as the iphones I have had though.
Iphones and pixels are both great and far above the other phones I have had so I don't think you can go wrong with either. Main benefit I have with android currently is that I can sideload a wifi hotspot app without paying a stupid subscription fee and google services like assistant, photos, and maps are much better in my opinion.
They actually decreased the battery capacity on the Pixel 4 compared to the 3 (yay for thinner devices!). This seems like a good reason.
I've always plugged in my phone in the car (being a big fan of Android Auto), at my desk and when I sleep. I'd probably go mad if I didn't have those habits.
This is new for me. I use Android myself, and people around me are mixed of Android and iPhone users. All iPhones users I know carry mobile battery. None of the Android users I know do (well, technically they do, but it is almost never used)
Five years ago, I was a big proponent of Macs (not iOS devices). Obviously Linux had its uses, and Windows had, um, games, but Apple's precision-engineered combination of hardware and software was really hard to beat for day-to-day use.
I won't be buying another Mac. Both OS X and MacBook design get worse with each new release, for years. They don't care about anything but iOS anymore--the Mac line is treated as a semi-portable accessory for your iPhone.
Linux is way better when it comes to privacy, without any doubt.
Dell is way better when it comes to hardware. Dell believes enough in their products to sell laptops with next business day repair included. It's definetly not cheap to send people to fix a single laptop in the middle of nowhere. Apple doesn't think their laptops are good enough for this to be worth it, so that says a bit about the build quality.
Yeah. I have thought about getting a Dell XPS running Linux for years, but I just can’t ever pull the trigger. I don’t even have great reasons other than I have been a satisfied Mac user for 15 years.
Right ! I sorta started to approach the subject with my girlfriend that works on only apple and 99/100 of her tasks are browser based... I sorta mentioned (after she complained again about xyz of apple) maybe we can get her a nice Linux desktop/laptop.... I was nearly single again..
Big Sur just came out, so I can forgive its buginess ;) But even with these bugs Apple is still the best of the batch, so you can read into that what you will (but it’ll hopefully be something like “everything else sucks even more”).
I really have to hand it to Apple there. I think they must be big tech that really cares (I use Fastmail etc. for this reason, but they aren't the same scope). Their privacy story nearly converted me a year back, but the walled garden has always been my biggest hurdle for switching to Apple. I personally regard the walled garden as a greater violation of what I think consumer rights are.
In addition to reducing freedom, the walled garden reduces privacy. You cannot install an app on your phone, not even (especially!) one you develop yourself, without telling Apple. The privacy marketing that Apple does for iOS is the biggest scam in consumer tech.
This is true. The privacy threat model of an iPhone is absolute trust in Apple that has more control over your device than you do. For me, it doesn't compute.
It computes for me. It's my Trusted Computing Base, in fact. Would rather have to trust one company than several, as with Android. Can we do better somehow?
These 4-5 years may be the last era where we could trust our hardware, until governments all demand backdoors in the OS.
Kotlin on Android is great, I think I prefer it over Swift. Android Studio frustrates me significantly more than XCode. Gradle frustrates me more than... whatever iOS uses for builds + CocoaPods. The Android Simulator frustrates me more than the iOS simulator. The Android BLE stack is a disaster; the iOS BLE stack is tolerable. Being able to hand out APKs is nice.
Edit: not being able to work on the iOS app while my MacBook is getting repaired after a coffee incident is pretty terrible. Android Studio works fine on my spare Linux laptop.
I've been an Apple fan since 1989 (I remember the exact moment).
I have low expectation of other technology companies. But every time Apple falls the slightest bit short it's like a kick in the stomach.
There was a story about how, when Bill Gates spoke at an Apple conference, beforehand, Steve Jobs announced a new hinge on the iBook. The crowd went wild and Bill was apparently totally bemused by the reaction to such a small detail. But that's why - I expect every detail to be just right.
My boss wants only Apple stuff in the company. Despite working with it for 12 years, I still hate the macOS UX. The hardware isn't bad and even looks aesthetically pleasing, but looks aren't something I find important in a computer. The UI too, looks nice, but personally I find there are some annoyances that make it cumbersome and counterproductive to use to the point where I've taken to do any serious work by remoting into Windows and Linux machines. With one exception (inserting a network cable into my Mac is the fastest way to reboot it - instant kernel panic, a known bug that was reported to Apple about 10 years ago and is still unresolved), none of the things I hate about macOS are bugs... they are all working as designed with some of them even touted as important features by Apple. A few of them I could work around - I've spent some serious money on simple utilities that make the OS usable to me - but others remain daily annoyances. If given half the chance, I'll drop Apple's software like a brick and never look back.
I'm looking for a genuine honest answer here, this really isn't rhetorical. Every second thread regarding Apple seems to have top comments complaining about the quality of what Apple has become. The first I recall was the butterfly keyboard fiasco, then some others, then El Capitan and Big Sur bugs, then this.
Again, I really want to understand this: why the continued loyalty?